Podcast: How ICE uses tech to target immigrants

Interview

Wednesday, February 3, 2021

In this episode of Who Belongs? we hear from Jacinta González, an organizer with Mijente, a non-profit which leads campaigns to educate and organize around issues concerning immigration, detentions and deportations. Jacinta explains how ICE and other law enforcement agencies are using surveillance technologies to target immigrant communities and other communities of color, and gives us her take on what the new administration in Washington must do about it. This interview was conducted by Emnet Almedom, a policy analyst here at OBI.

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Transcript:

Jacinta Gonzalez: It's not going to be sufficient for the Biden administration to just roll back what Trump did. They actually have to repair harms that were caused, and they actually have to start to reduce the ability for future harms that these agencies have by making concrete policy changes and by dismantling a lot of this enforcement machinery that has been built up for so long.

Marc Abizeid: Hello and welcome to this episode of Who Belongs, production from OBI. In this episode we'll hear from Jacinta Gonzalez, an organizer with Mijente, a nonprofit which leads campaigns to educate and organize around issues concerning immigration detentions and deportations. Jacinta explains how ICE and other law enforcement agencies are using surveillance technologies to target immigrant communities and other communities of color and gives us her take on what the new administration in Washington should do about it. This interview was conducted by Emnet Almedom, a policy analyst here at OBI. Here was their conversation.

Emnet Almedom: So we're recording this a few weeks after the very messy, to say the least, ending of the Trump administration. Four years marked by an open embrace of othering to stoke fears, four years of deliberate, unpredictable terrorizing of those who are othered. And the Trump administration's cruel immigration policies were really such a clear manifestation of the strategy. We saw children separated from their parents and physically detained for weeks and months on end, unpredictable deportation rates by ICE, that's Immigration and Customs Enforcement, in workplaces and in the sanctity of homes. But it's important to reflect on the fact that Donald Trump didn't create ICE. As Mijente states in its policy platform on the pathway to abolishing ICE, "Bush created ICE, Obama expanded and sharpened its capacity for harm and Trump has gladly unleashed this weaponized, unaccountable behemoth against our community." Today, we're going to learn a little bit more about the way that technology in particular has been unleashed to fuel the system and what to pay attention to in this new Biden/Harris administration.

Emnet Almedom: So Jacinta, thank you so much for joining us today.

Jacinta Gonzalez: No, thank you so much for having me.

Emnet Almedom: I walked through a couple of just examples here of what we've been seeing over the past four years. And then of course as Mijente astutely kind of points us to is, it's not new, but rather it's just been very intensified during the Trump administration. And maybe many of us can picture the impact that ICE has had in our cities across the country, maybe you've seen protests and push-backs with impacted communities with the move to abolish ICE and that kind of communication being more front and center. But this role in power of technology that we're about to get into today might be a little bit more opaque for folks. So to start us off, could you break down for us the connection between Silicon Valley and this booming tech industry, where we actually at OBI are situated close by in the Bay area and then Washington DC and kind of the federal law and immigration enforcement, these two centers of power that might seem far apart. Can you talk to us about how they're interconnected.

Jacinta Gonzalez: Sure. Back after 9/11, President Bush decided to form the department of Homeland Security and within that, placed different policing agencies, ICE, Border Patrol that were tasked with identifying, surveilling, detaining and deporting anyone who's undocumented in the U.S. And that was a huge task and little by little, they've been building up this police force to be able to conduct that mission, but they've also tried to find different allies in that. And so for a very long time, particularly under Obama's presidency, we saw ICE form agreements or contracts with local police departments, with local sheriffs, with local jails, state prisons, to try to create a huge dragnet that would be criminalizing immigrants and then leading them to deportation.

Jacinta Gonzalez: What we started to notICE recently is that those partnerships, although very helpful for them, weren't enough for them. So what they really actually started to do is work more and more with tech and data companies to build up a huge infrastructure to facilitate deportation. And so the way that this looked is that we would get calls from people saying like, "How did ICE get my address?" Or, "How did ICE know that so-and-so was my cousin?" Or, "How did they know that this is where I worked, or this is the car that I drove?" And the relationships with local police, the info sharing with local police departments, whether it was through secure communities or 287(g) or other types of agreements, weren't enough to explain what was happening.

Jacinta Gonzalez: So back in 2018, we started to do some research and put out a report called Who's Behind ICE? The Tech and Data Companies Fueling Deportations, where we started to track that there's a huge industry that has multi-million dollar contracts with the federal government to be able to help in this types of policing and surveillance. And so that includes everything from data brokers that are buying and selling information on people like Thomson Reuters or Arialex or Lexus Nexus. That includes data analytics companies like Palantir that are custom making software for ICE to be able to process all of this data. And that includes companies like Amazon that are providing cloud storage to be able to host and store all of this information that's being used to be able to create ISIS target lists.

Jacinta Gonzalez: And so from there, we were able to analyze it, actually, this is a huge industry. I think this is an industry that is starting to see that if they get lucrative contracts in policing, that can be their business model. And so for us, it was important to one, expose them, but then start to think about how is this really an extension of policing? How is this really an extension of police violence and state violence in a lot of ways against immigrants? And so there's just been a lot of conversations that have happened and the more we look into it, there's now even more companies that are trying to do biometric tracking, right? Taking people's DNA, people's voice prints. We see that there's a huge industry at the border, we've seen with this new administration, they're saying, "We're not going to build a brick and mortar wall the way Trump wanted to, but we're actually going to create a tech and surveillance wall." And so again, this is just a phenomenon that we're seeing over and over again in immigration enforcement and something that's really concerning and alarming to us.

Emnet Almedom: Absolutely. And the language may change if we're not physically building anything, but a lot of it is technological and harder to track. And so that's one thing that really speaks to me from what you're sharing and also from reading that report that you mentioned Who's Behind ICE, I think y'all make it really clear that some of these choices that could seem smaller, more mundane of some of the words that popped out were interoperability or modernization of systems. Some of that can seem like it's just an update or this is just to be more efficient. So it's really clear from what you all have put out that there's very specific harms of those stories of, I have no idea how I'm being tracked from all these different sides. And then the clear financial benefits for those powerful companies, like you were saying that these contracts are super lucrative and last for a long time. So I'd love to get into kind of how you all have been organizing against what you just laid out. So what are the intervention points that you want to call us to for calling out and rolling back these harms? What should we be paying attention to, whether it's during or outside of election cycles?

Jacinta Gonzalez: I think we've really realized that this is an issue that's going to require all hands on deck. This is why we build movements where folks can have different ways of participating, different ways of contributing because unfortunately there isn't one silver bullet that's going to be able to take it all down. We actually all have to do our part in terms of how we change this conversation and try to push back against surveillance and push back against the expansion of policing into the digital realm.

Jacinta Gonzalez: We've been doing a lot of organizing. Under Trump, it was very hard to think about trying to push the federal government to take any sort of different action. And so that really made us realize that also some of these corporate targets also require organizing to hold them accountable. And so for us, that meant one, exposing what was happening, being able to actually tell a clear story and a clear narrative of what was happening and that's why the research has been so important, to actually be able to show people what is behind the Department of Homeland Security is very closed doors, to really understand what it is that they're building. Because so many times for us as organizers, we have a very hard task where we have to tear down what has been built up for centuries, but also understand where the state and where corporations are going in terms of new forms of control or continuation of the same systems.

Jacinta Gonzalez: And so for us, it was really important to sort of understand again, how ICE was building up the surveillance machinery that for right now is being used for deportations, but we saw very clearly under Trump can be used against other communities as well. As soon as they have it, they will use it. And so for us, that meant doing a lot of organizing in different spaces. Some of that was with folks that are directly being targeted by ICE, folks that are undocumented, folks that are been on the front lines in their communities, fighting back against deportations, fighting back against ICE policing and giving them tools to either one, understand what surveillance capitalism is about, understand how the local police use technology, how ICE and federal agencies use it, but also how we build campaigns to expose things at a city level and be able to make interventions to ban certain technologies so that they're not used against our communities.

Jacinta Gonzalez: That also meant working with students. So many of these companies that I mentioned have contracts with universities to go to different places to recruit students. These are future tech workers who might not know what it is that they're building, might not know what it is that they're coding. And so for us, it was really important to have a vibrant student movement that was actually also pushing back. And we worked with a lot of student groups, including Slack in California, which has been doing really phenomenal work and organize a bunch of different petitions protests on campuses against recruitment, trying to cancel contracts between universities and these companies for recruitment purposes. So that was also really powerful and a strategy that we tried. We also actually worked with investors. Again, so many of these private corporations are making millions, but the same way that now investors understand that they shouldn't put their money into fossil fuel or shouldn't put their money into tobacco or weapons, we need to be able to create a different conversation so that investors aren't fueling surveillance and tech companies that are actually harming communities and aiding state violence.

Jacinta Gonzalez: So for us, it's been really powerful to create a movement that includes folks from all of these communities, whether it's a local community on the front lines or students that are supporting academics as well, tech workers. We've also seen within many tech companies, workers are starting to organize and push back and develop analysis. I think there's a lot more work to be done on this front, but there is a lot of hope in terms of seeing people start to have some analysis of, I don't want to participate in this type of business model and push back against it. And that's also been really, really effective and powerful work. So for us, it's been about creating a space where all of these people can come together.

Jacinta Gonzalez: Before the pandemic struck, we had a conference in San Jose called Take Back Tech, where we precisely brought together people who have been fighting against policing and the use of for example, facial recognition in policing, predictive policing algorithms in the fight against cash bail, bringing together folks that are against militarization and have been fighting against war, folks from the immigrant rights space folks from the tech worker space together to have one conversation about how we organize campaigns that are grassroots campaigns that can fight back, not only to get different policies, but to also push back against the corporations that are driving these things.

Emnet Almedom: Wow. It really is all hands on deck from hearing you go through all those examples. And yeah, I think zeroing in on the power that these tech companies have, as you were kind of talking through the grassroots local organizing and pushing against sheriffs. I'm from Gwinnett County, which is in Georgia, which had all eyes on us very recently for the national election, but through a lot of Mijente's work, also ousted a local sheriff that was really big on using the 287(g) program and now, different Amazon data centers are coming to Georgia. So I'm just hearing all these different connections between all these systems and types of power that can exist in our states and in our cities. And yeah, I really appreciate hearing all the different angles of how you all fight against that.

Emnet Almedom: I want to switch to something that you brought up towards the beginning around the history of the Department of Homeland Security, how they've been building up this police force. And you mentioned it just now, that this Take Back Tech conference that you all put together, that there was a kind of thinking through folks that have been anti-war, pushing against war investments for a long time. And you've made that clear connection through No Tech for ICE as well, that the military industrial complex and tech companies are really connected. And I would be curious to hear you talk a little bit about that specifically, the way that this technology is used for war, both at home and abroad. How has this really lucrative model that you all are exposing, how do you connect it to that American concept of policing more generally?

Jacinta Gonzalez: Yeah, I mean, what we have seen is that many of the tech and data companies that are starting to invest in policing, were already investing in war technologies for a very long time. And so that meant that you have companies that have already understood, "Ooh, this is a multimillion or billion dollar contract that I can get for technology that can be used in wars abroad," that are then very quickly brought to the U.S. one, through a militarized border, so we have to understand that the conversation around securing the border and having to use both military grade equipment, but also surveillance equipment has been incredibly harmful and has normalized a lot of technologies before there's any sort of framework for regulation. And not that these technologies should be regulated, but what we have seen is that there's actually no framework to protect people's human rights and no tools to build power to be able to fight back against them without the organizing that we're doing. And so that's just very alarming. And what happens is, agencies like ICE are really now international surveillance agencies. They are not just meant to be able to surveil people in the U.S. but surveil people abroad. And they use that excuse to be able to get even more powerful technologies and to have less checks on how they're being used.

Jacinta Gonzalez: But what we've seen time and time again, is that once these technologies become used by these agencies, they very quickly get out to the rest of the American policing systems. Sometimes the Department of Justice will send them out or sometimes those police departments will start to use them themselves. And it's just very concerning to see that happen at such a scale. And we've also seen it come up time and time again in the movements to defund the police. Because what we've seen is that so many times what, what cities will try to say is, "Oh, well, we have to invest in a gentler form of policing," or, "If they have issues with racial disparities, oh, well, let's use an algorithm that will solve it." But actually what we see is these technologies are exasperating those problems and making things worse, while at the same time lining the pockets of folks in Silicon Valley. And so instead of aiding this process of being able to rely less on policing, invest more in communities, what they're actually doing is reinforcing the system of needing to watch people who are deemed as criminals, which we know are our Black and Brown communities, out immigrant communities, our poor communities.

Jacinta Gonzalez: And so for us, it's just been important to be able to push back, not only on when it's being used in a war zone, but also when it's being used in our backyard. And so it's really having to understand the complexities of how all of these things are connected. And I also think that the other problem that we're not quite realizing is, as federal agencies are trying to build up the surveillance dragnet, the use of data brokers really makes it so that any information can get sucked up into the system. So someone, we were, for example, talking about license plate readers in the state of California. California has a bunch of different laws that are trying to create sanctuary for immigrants or some sort of protection for undocumented communities. But many times, data brokers will buy data that's not supposed to be used for immigration purposes and then sell it and sell it and sell it and somehow it gets into the hands of ICE to be used for deportation. And so we also see that, as more data is being collected on people, that means that there's more chances of that being sucked into this dragnet and being used for policing and for repression.

Jacinta Gonzalez: And so it's just a very system that's being set up, and that's why we really have to expose it and create more awareness around this, so that people have the tools to be able to fight for data justice. Because the frames that we're using right now are insufficient, it's not a question of just being able to keep your information private, it's actually being able to fight back against the state and fight back against the policing systems that are trying to, better targeting people in the first place.

Emnet Almedom: Thank you for raising that example and this concept of a dragnet of just an ever ending source of technology or sorry, rather of data through all the technology that we use. And I wonder if maybe you could share examples of what are kind of the sources that they're using? And this can tie in to another question that I have around, how is this actually showing up in people's lives? You've mentioned at the top, hearing from community, how did they know, how did they get this information? And that was part of what you all were doing was hearing from those most impacted and hearing their stories. But could you make that a little more tangible for us? What are they using in terms of data sources? How is this showing up in people's lives? And, of course, then we want to think about how a lot of this stress and the impact of surrounds shows up in the body, shows up in mental health shows up in just your ability to live your life. So, could you speak a little on that?

Jacinta Gonzalez: Sure. I mean, what we've seen at this point, data is worth more than oil at the global marketplace. And so most people think that all of this data is being bought and sold just because Amazon wants to know what your profile is to sell you the right kind of blender you like, or they want to know your shoe size so they can advertise that for you. But what we've started to realize is that it's not only companies and advertisers that are interested in our personal information, it's also the state, it's also the government, it's also the police. And again, as more data sources are being created, there are more companies that are creating the data analytics programs to be able to sort of file everything in one place and be able to hand it over to the authorities so that they can use it.

Jacinta Gonzalez: And what we've been seeing steadily is that ICE has been conducting more and more raids in neighborhoods and in communities. And many times they'll go door to door, knowing exactly who they're looking for. And so, many times these data brokers or these data sources are what they use to find people's addresses to be able to conduct this type of enforcement operation. So some folks have seen different documentaries like Immigration Nation and others, where ICE is going door to door, how they get that data many times has to do with data brokers. And where data brokers get that information is really everywhere.

Jacinta Gonzalez: So what we've seen is, for example, some utility companies are sharing information, they're saying to build up people's credit, but actually it's also again, ending up in the hands of ICE. And so that means that the communities are having to constantly deal with, "Well, should I have cable or not? Because that information could end up in the hands of a data broker and go and end up in the hands of ICE." Office of Motor Vehicles, so many times have contracts with data brokers themselves to provide other services and that's another place where information is being leaked. Healthcare bills, right? How many times have people heard of, "Oh, they bought my debt and they're calling me to charge me for it." That information can also be bought by ICE. And so this is really the place where there's so much concern, because that means that communities have to make these really hard decisions between having basic services and knowing that their information could be leaked to an agency that is literally tasked with surveilling detaining and deporting them. And that's really how it comes up in people's day-to-day lives.

Jacinta Gonzalez: I think so much of the thing that is scary about surveillance is that we can't see it, we don't always know that it's there. But I think that communities have really, especially immigrant communities under the Trump administration, were very clear that a racist, xenophobic agenda put a target on their back and that any sort of movement could be monitored and could lead to this type of repression. And I think that's why for us, it's so important under this new administration to be saying, this is the time we actually have to dismantle these agencies. This is where we have to stop deportations. This is where we have to reduce the number of agents that are there. This is when we actually have to cut these programs like 287(g) that you were mentioning in Georgia, detainer programs, there's so many policy demands that can be made at this moment in time where we actually have to reduce that harm. Because what we see is that if we don't stop it, it's going to continue to build and it's going to continue to be attacking communities. And so it just requires immediate action.

Emnet Almedom: Yeah, absolutely. And I was also wondering if you could speak a little on how are you seeing the pandemic impact? Because so much is moving online and I was hearing you go through the examples of where they're getting this data. Could you talk a little bit about that? The way that the pandemic is pushing so much online, is it impacting or further fueling what ICE and these data brokers and all the different parts of the system, is it impacting or increasing their ability to further surveil?

Jacinta Gonzalez: What we've seen is a couple of scary trends. I would say, yes, definitely, there is more, as folks are going online, you start to see surveillance impact different elements of people's lives. So for example, so many of our kids, our young people are doing their education online, that's leading to different types of surveillance and then invasion of people's homes and privacy in a way that is actually contributing more to the criminalization of communities of color that have already had to go through so much and don't have access to education in the same way. But we've also seen a lot of really concerning things in terms of some of the corporations that are involved in this. I mentioned at the beginning, a company Palantir, that is custom building ICE's software for them. This same company also got a contract with Health and Human Services for the HHS Protect platform to be able to monitor COVID. How concerning is that? Incredibly concerning, right? They are data systems for the entire government. And that was a no bid contract that they got as part of the first COVID relief bill.

Jacinta Gonzalez: So we're starting to see that many of these companies that were already building data analytics systems for the government are using those same systems once again, to try to expand that even more. And we're just concerned about them having access to so much personal identifying information and not having clear regulations around how that's being used or anyone monitoring them or holding them accountable for that type of work. So what we've seen is that again, there's more of an emphasis on surveillance, there's more of a conversation around control and then more people, like you're saying, are going online and that's leaving a bigger digital footprint without having any sort of protections around how that data is being bought and sold.

Emnet Almedom: Yeah. I'm appreciating this kind of theme of how quickly the tools of the system are changing. And we're seeing a lot of similar outcomes with or without technology, but as the tools change so rapidly, whether it's with new technologies or just with the amount of data with all of us going online and in different ways, I'm really glad that y'all are doing this work because it seems like it's moving so fast. So it really, I think further emphasizes your point that this is an all hands on deck situation because what they use for immigration enforcement today can show up in other ways tomorrow.

Emnet Almedom: So I want to kind of switch gears to what you were alluding to a couple of minutes ago around, y'all have been doing this work at the local level, state level, very much a grassroots all hands on deck approach and I'm sure that's not slowing down anytime soon, but also that there is this transition at the federal level where there might be some windows of opportunity. So we've already seen them put out some of those big announcements, I'll talk through a couple and then turn it to you to tell us what we should be paying attention to. But we saw announcements on immigration in the carceral system, a couple that I'll point out is the halting of deportations for 100 days, ending federal contracts with private prisons. But of course, very immediately we saw caveats and saw things to show us that we don't need to have our guard down by any means, that ICE isn't fully compliant with those orders to halt deportations and the push to cancel those contracts doesn't include private detention centers that are used to imprison migrants during pending trials or whatever it might be.

Emnet Almedom: And I wanted to also raise a more recent and glaring example of the deportation of a woman who had witnessed the anti-immigrant, white supremacist, mass shooting in El Paso, perhaps she potentially was at risk herself, I'm sure. And I think her story holds so much of the moment that we're in, right after the insurrection of what happened at the Capitol and the different attacks that have happened in El Paso, Charleston, Charlottesville, you name it, where this right-wing violence and rhetoric is rising with so little accountability, and then we're still seeing the people that are most vulnerable continue to be under attack and continue to be vulnerable. So hearing that she was deported really is sticking with me, so I would love to hear, what are you focusing on as we look at this new administration? What are you looking at in terms of those openings, those policy windows for change? And also help us kind of look past the headlines, which I think will be kind of a big thing for this administration.

Jacinta Gonzalez: I would say a few things. The moratorium on deportations was a pretty huge win and it's a huge win in the sense that it didn't come from the Biden administration on its own. It really came after years and years of struggle, of communities on the ground who are saying, "Not one more deportation," who are saying, "We have to stop these deportations. If you won't, we will, with our bodies, with our families, with everything we have." The idea that we could actually win a federal moratorium on deportations came from a lot of people doing a lot of work to fight and to push back. And so it was a really welcomed sigh of relief for a lot of communities.

Jacinta Gonzalez: I think what we've seen since is that, even though we might've gotten Trump out of the White House, which was also a huge accomplishment, and thanks to the tireless work of so many people who participated in the election. We haven't gotten rid of white supremacy in the United States and so it continues to be present in the courts, it continues to be present in the state as we see the state of Texas suing to fight back against the moratorium, it continues to be present in the rank and file ICE agents who are refusing to follow these orders and who are still trying to do everything they can, whether it's on their own or through their union to try to be able to continue to deport as many people as they can and create harm in communities the way that they have for so long.

Jacinta Gonzalez: And so I think it still remains to be seen if this new administration is going to be willing to actually step up to be able to one, bring some accountability to the agency and two, be able to actually start to dismantle and overhaul the policies and protocols and practices and infrastructure that's been built up to surveil, detain and deport immigrants in the United States and honestly abroad as well. So I think that there's a lot of work to be done on that front.

Jacinta Gonzalez: In the moratorium, there was 100 days where they're supposed to be doing an internal review. And I think that for us, is a chance to continue to organize, to say, "Okay, great, moratorium was a good first step, but now we need you to end the 287(g) program. Now we need you to phase out immigration detention in general. Not only close down private detention centers, but no one should be detained for an immigration offense." Now is the time to be able to make all of these demands around where we should actually be investing our resources, which is not in federal policing for immigration. And so I think we have a lot of work to do.

Jacinta Gonzalez: I think there's places where we've been able to push a little bit more, but I also think that it's going to be very concerning and we've already started to see it, that this administration is trying to say that technology would be a safer, gentler alternative to the policing that we've seen so far and that's really dangerous rhetoric. And so I think we are going to have to continue to push back against this idea of needing to have surveillance at the border in exchange for a path to citizenship. I think we're going to have to be pushing back against the use of, for example, electronic shackles or electronic monitoring as an alternative to detention. What we've seen is it's actually just an expansion of that, it's something that's equally punitive and unnecessary, and also contributing to the privatization of incarceration and punishment practices.

Jacinta Gonzalez: So I think again, there's a lot of work that we have to do, but I do think that it's important to note that the moratorium wouldn't have happened had it not been for communities that were fighting back. And so if we expect this administration to do anything on their own, we're not going to get very far. So this is also sort of a call to action for all of our listeners out there that we have to continue to push for more. It's not going to be sufficient for the Biden administration to just roll back what Trump did. They actually have to repair harms that were caused, and they actually have to start to reduce the ability for future harms that these agencies have by making concrete policy changes, and by dismantling a lot of this enforcement machinery that has been built up for so long.

Emnet Almedom: Absolutely. And I think you made a really excellent point that right now, we're definitely having to play defense and divesting from certain systems and certain technologies and tools. And I think this is across the spectrum of the abolition movement, that when we divest from those tools, imagining what we can instead invest in. And you made that point, I think it's really important to end on of, there's so much more that we could be doing to better be in social solidarity, better support immigrant workers, undocumented workers, and just families and people, regardless of what you do for your day to day job. But anyway, that there's so much that we could be instead putting our energy and time and money and attention towards once we further dismantle these systems that really shouldn't have been in place in the first place.

Emnet Almedom: So I really appreciate you sharing that and making these points. And like you said, it's a call to action by no means a reason to slow down. So I'll end on that point. Do you have any recommendations, any kind of campaigns, whether it's reading or whatever it is to fuel our audience to understand more of what you all are working on or other campaigners that you're with?

Jacinta Gonzalez: Yeah. I mean, I do think we have to remember and recognize the Department of Homeland Security is the biggest police force in the country. And so, as we're talking about not only the need to abolish ICE, but also defund the police, that these fights are one and the same, it's part of the same conversation about how we actually reimagine where we're putting our resources and how we're investing in communities. I think for folks that want to learn more, we have our Free Our Future policy platform, which we put out a couple of years ago, but I think is still incredibly relevant and talks about how we should be decriminalizing migration, having new visions for these agencies and giving us a pathway of how we continue to fight.

Jacinta Gonzalez: I also think, if folks are interested in some other resources around the No Tech For ICE campaign, you can go to notechforICE.com and we have a bunch of resources there, whether it's a toolkit for local cities to think about exposing bad tech in their police departments and think about different resolutions or ordinances that can be passed. There's a toolkit and a workshop guide and a comic strip to kind of explain some of these concepts to folks. I know sometimes they feel really hard to explain or really hard to illustrate, and so we worked with a really amazing artist who helped us create this entire toolkit that's in both English and Spanish, and a couple of workshop guides for people to use. We have a bunch of videos and graphics and different reports that are out there. So there's just a lot of resources that I would really encourage people to check out, at notechforICE.com.

Jacinta Gonzalez: And then just follow Mijente, we identify ourselves as a political home for Latina and Chicana folks that are fighting back against a bunch of different issues. So if there's anybody who's listening who's Chicanx, who's Latinx, become a member, get involved. There's so many things that we can do, sometimes it's around immigration issues, sometimes it's around policing, sometimes around the elections, Puerto Rico, women's rights, there is just so many places and fronts of struggle that we have. So it's just more of an open invitation to get involved in and be connected to movement in whatever way we can, because this is really going to take all of us to have a different conversation and to be able to contend for power and all of the spaces that we have to.

Marc Abizeid: And that concludes this episode of Who Belongs. Thank you to our guest, Jacinta Gonzalez, an organizer of Mijente, for coming on our show, and Emnet Almedom, a policy analyst here at OBI for conducting the interview. We'll put links to Mijente's work on our website at belonging.berkeley.edu/whobelongs. There, you can also find a transcript of this interview. Thank you for listening.

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