In this episode we speak with two of the founding members of the Florida Rights Restoration Coalition, the President Desmond Meade and the Political Director Neil Volz. Together, Desmond and Neil have been working on restoring the rights of people who have a prior felony conviction, referred to as returning citizens. In 2018, they were successful in passing amendment 4 that restored the right of over 1.4 million Floridians to vote. How were they successful getting 65% of Floridians to support this amendment? Bridging. In this episode Desmond and Neil discuss their personal path into this work and how they successfully led a campaign through bridging that returned citizens and accordingly restored their right to vote.
This episode of Who Belongs? is part of a new series of podcasts focused on telling bridging stories. Throughout the series we’ll talk to leaders implementing bridging work and individuals who have experienced the bridging transformation. This project is led by OBI’s Blueprint for Belonging project (B4B), and hosted by program researcher Miriam Magaña Lopez. This project is funded by The Annie E. Casey Foundation, Inc.
Transcript
Desmond Meade:
We was able to show the world that we didn't have to tear each other down to be successful. We didn't have to instill fear in each other to be successful, that we could actually move major human rights issues through love.Gerald Lenoir:
Welcome to today's episode of a new sub series of the podcast Who Belongs? The Othering & Belonging Institute with financial support from The Annie E. Casey Foundation is developing a series of podcasts to capture examples of bridging to belonging. We want a world where everyone belongs. So how do we get there? The answer is bridging. Throughout the series we will talk to leaders implementing bridging work and individuals who have experienced the bridging transformation. My name is Gerald Lenoir strategy analyst at Othering & Belonging Institute. And I will be hosting today's episode. Today we are speaking with two of the founding members of the Florida Rights Restoration Coalition. The president Desmond Meade and the political director, Neil Volz. Together, Desmond and Neil have been working on restoring the rights of people who have a prior felony conviction. In 2018, they were successful in passing Amendment IV of the Florida Constitution that restored the right to vote of over 1.4 million Floridians.Gerald Lenoir:
How were they successful in getting 65% of Floridians to support this amendment? Bridging. Desmond and Neil do not care about a person's political affiliation or race, but recognize every individual as a human that deserves the right to vote. In this episode, Desmond and Neil discussed their personal path into this work and how they let a campaign that bridged returning citizens and built a winning coalition that restored their right to vote.Gerald Lenoir:
Together you've done and are doing amazing work to address felony disenfranchisement in Florida. Tell me how did you two meet and what was it that pushed you to start bringing people together around this issue and to start the Florida Rights Restoration Coalition?Desmond Meade:
Well, Neil, I think this-Neil Volz:
I could jump in in terms of how the two of us met and Des might be able to outline little bit more about the beginnings of The Florida Rights Restoration Coalition, but ultimately for me in this journey around empowering people with past felony convictions and those who are impacted by the criminal justice system in Florida, it started for me in 2006 when I got my felony conviction, made some mistakes and crossed some lines I shouldn't have crossed and in the process upended my life and I ended up moving to Florida and trying to start over. And part of that process involved a lot of shame and guilt and trying to work on my own stuff. And ultimately in 2015, I was on a college campus helping somebody who I went to church with who was trying to set up a small group there.Neil Volz:
And there was a flyer that said come learn about felon disenfranchisement in Florida. And I'd had a lot of friends who had encouraged me to take part in that, but I just wasn't ready, my heart wasn't there yet. And as background, I had been involved in conservative politics for almost 20 years. And so I'm very politically active, civically minded, involved in democracy issues. I walked through that door on that college campus and right away I see 30 people in the room and I tell myself, I'm like, "Wow, this feels a little progressive." And I didn't necessarily belong. In my own mind, I was like, "Oh my gosh, do I belong here?" I sat down but I did not think that I was going to stay very long until I heard Desmond speaking.Neil Volz:
And Desmond was very clear about the vision he was casting for this movement and that there was bridging to somebody like myself with a past felony conviction. He literally said, he is like, "Look, I don't believe that I have a monopoly on pain or that any group has a monopoly on pain. If you're here and you're somebody with a past felony conviction you're supposed to be here." And it just locked me in. We ended up talking for almost two hours at the end of the meeting and he's my brother now, man, I love him and we're on this road together. But it started with that moment where I felt like in some small way I might not belong, which might have been good issues, but it was the way that Desmond framed everything up that created that initial bridge.Desmond Meade:
I think when Neil was talking, I thought it was very interesting that he came from a conservative background but he was a returning citizen and he almost did not stay at that meeting. Almost didn't think he belonged because it seemed, in his words 'progressivy', when we talk about how this movement came to be, it came from personal experience, not a political experience, but a personal experience, interaction encounter with the justice system and with living in this state that permanently barred anyone convicted of a felony offense from voting. My background is I had a substance abuse problem and that led me to jail and eventually prison and it led me to be homeless for quite a number of years.Desmond Meade:
And I remember distinctively in August of 2005 when I was standing in front of railroad tracks waiting on a train to come so I could jump in front of it and end my life. Being homeless, recently released from prison, addicted to drugs. I didn't see any light at the end of the tunnel, but God had other plans and I crossed those railroad tracks and I checked myself into drug treatment. After completing that, I moved back into a homeless shelter and while living there, I decided to enroll in one of the local colleges there. And I had successful time at the college and I was able to get associates as well as bachelors. And eventually I got accepted in the law school in May of 2014, I graduated with a law degree. But along that journey, I became aware of a coalition of organizations of over 70 national and state organizations that was focusing on felon disenfranchisement in Florida.Desmond Meade:
And it was mainly a list serve. And I joined that group through my advocacy or activism with a homeless advocacy organization in Day County. And before I could even exhale completely, I ended up becoming the president of that group. And in 2011, I officially incorporated Florida Rights Restoration Coalition to be the voice of directly impacted people, to be the voice of people with felony evictions, and to make sure that our voices were centered in the work that we had laid out a head force. And so it was very intentional, even from the very beginning, especially when I'm traveling the State of Florida and noticing that felony disenfranchisement impacted people from all walks of life, all political persuasions. And so we are very intentional in making sure that this movement, this organization was about people first, it was about dealing with the issues that impact people like me, who couldn't vote, who had a hard time finding housing or jobs.Gerald Lenoir:
So now I'm interested in learning more about the people that are involved in this work with you. Can you describe the type of groups that are coming together in this and the type of folks that are coming together?Neil Volz:
Yeah. I can describe the family that really fuels this movement from my perspective. And that is that people who have been impacted by the criminal justice system, loved ones, somebody who has been arrested, somebody who has a conviction, somebody's been incarcerated, somebody who's been through community supervision, people all across the entire State of Florida from all walks of life, but who have shared pain and experiences of dealing with the system. In addition to that, dealing with the lack of responsiveness by the political system to the cries of pain and the desire for change around these issues. When you silence a million plus people in terms of having any voice in society, it isn't any wonder that even well-intentioned people who want to help end up putting your needs under the lower list of the priorities.Neil Volz:
Even people who want to help you end up kind of like, "Oh, we'll get to it. We want to eventually do that. We want to do this." And it takes somebody an amazing leader like Desmond to be able to cast a vision that says, what if we, collectively we try and move this ourselves. That's loved ones. That's people all across the state. This movement was knitted together by real life experiences from people in churches, people in civic groups, people at the local park who simply were saying, "Hey, this is my opportunity to show love to somebody I care about who's trapped in a system in which they actually have no voice and we don't know what the path forward is."Desmond Meade:
The type of people that make up that group, I think of Sam in Northern rural Florida who grew up in a military family and wanted to serve this country, but at 18, he got a marijuana conviction. He grew up in this conservative family, but for over 20 years, this guy could not have his rights restored. I think about how the veteran who put his life on the line to so-called protect democracy and serve our country violently and to come back home disabled. And because he wrote a bad check to feed himself, could not vote for over 30 years or the veteran that came back with PTSD in Jacksonville and he didn't get the proper treatment at the VA and he ended up self-medicating himself and then he ended up catching drug charges, and now he faced a lifetime ban.Desmond Meade:
And I think about Barbara. I think about this woman who when we encountered her was given six months to live by her doctor and her dying wish was not to meet a celebrity or visit an exotic location, rather go to Disney World per se, her dying wish was to be able to vote again. These are the type of people that make up the Florida Rights Restoration Coalition. These are the type of people that make up the constituency, the constituents, the base that we are trying to empower, that we to bring in to democracy. They come from all walks of life and they have some amazing stories of redemption. They have amazing stories of just the trauma that they've gone through and they've been able to overcome.Gerald Lenoir:
Thank you for that description of your constituents. It's a pretty broad group of folks who are facing felony disenfranchisement. I know that your work has also been a real catalyst for the emergence of a new identity which you call the returning citizen. Now, I know you said that your group did not make up that term but can you talk about what it means to you and its role in the success of your work?Desmond Meade:
Sure. That's a great question because it speaks to a much broader discussion or about a narrative. And so when we came up with the word returning citizens, it was in the effort to push back against the use of the word felons or cons. What guided us or what was the initial guidance was the study that showed that when you call someone ex-con or ex-felon, you actually increased the likelihood of them recidivating. It's almost like what we've heard before. If you keep calling a child stupid growing up, they're going to grow up thinking that they're stupid. And so we wanted to create some type of positive energy and their organizations throughout the country that are now really using different terms such as justice impacted individual or formally incarcerated individuals.Desmond Meade:
And they're moving away from using the term ex-con or ex-felon. But the bigger picture here, though, Gerald and excuse me for speaking a little long on this, but it is so important because when we think about the term that we use to identify people who have a previous felony conviction or who have been impacted by the justice system, I can't help but to think about the US' involvement in the bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki. When knowing that the United States had to go through a massive propaganda campaign prior to bombing these Japanese cities, and they depicted the Japanese people as dangerous people, actually they end up dehumanizing the Japanese people. And in the process of dehumanizing them, there was also desensitizing everyone else as to the plight of Japanese people.Desmond Meade:
So when they dropped the bomb on the Hiroshima and Nagasaki, rather than there being outrage, it was actually a celebration. And it's that kind of narrative that says that some people are less than others, the less valuable than others, the less worthy than others. And this narrative, it gains its momentum by the use of the terminologies that we use to describe these individuals. And so we wanted to uplift the humanity in people. We didn't want to be super predators. We didn't want to be criminals or villains because when those terms they use, then we are dehumanized and people are less sensitive to the atrocities that we face on a daily basis. And so that's part of the purpose of the use of returning citizens.Gerald Lenoir:
Yeah. Neil, we at the institute often talk about building a bigger we, do you think the term returning citizens has allowed people who might otherwise be divided to bridge that is to come together and feel like a meaningful we?Neil Volz:
Yeah, I see that every day. And just to kind of echo what Des was talking about in terms of kind of pushing back on this dehumanization narrative that creates a culture that makes it easy to divide. That makes it easy to discard. And especially when you start talking about people, millions of people in the State of Florida in this particular case who in many cases it became easy to discard and put to the side of society. And those of us who found ourselves with that label working through that stigma we were attracted to this idea of this bigger we. That our shared experiences and our shared pain could actually turn into shared purpose. I remember a conversation I had with Des that completely transformed the way I identified with the movement was in 2017, we're within a recovery community a recovery center that I was helping to manage at the time while working with FRC and helping us move forward with the petitions at gathering and Amendment IV.Neil Volz:
And I was kind of doing my thing, talking to Des. I believe that language is incredibly vital. Language shapes culture and then culture impacts policy. And then policy impacts people's lives. When we start talking about what language we use, it's really important, but I was a little off. I've been involved for a couple years and I'm talking to Des about how do we use the right language to connect with people through a political lens. I was doing this kind of right left stuff. And I remember Des' words and it was so wise because he was like, "Look, I'm not saying what you're saying is wrong. He's like, "There might be some value in how we are going to use the different words to connect with people." He's like, "But what I'm telling you is that this movement's deeper than that."Neil Volz:
He's like, at the end of the day, we're going to win if people see us as people and we're going to lose if people who see us as less than that. And that's a reflection of the, the headwinds that we, you continue to face in terms of this dehumanization and this kind of casualness of talking about people as felons and it's like it creates a division and between how we see each other and we fight very hard and we believe to our core that part of our mission is to try and get rid of those blinders that so many of us naturally have these narrative blinders that just immediately you're able to like look at somebody as less than and that's at the heart of this work.Gerald Lenoir:
Yeah. It seems like the term returning citizen is a container that allows for people of different races and backgrounds to have a shared narrative project as you pointed out in an identity project. Can you talk about the work of bridging across race with people coming out of the context of incarceration within forced segregation and racial animus.Desmond Meade:
You packed a lot into that question here, Gerald. I mean, let me start with this. I remember when I first was introduced to felony disenfranchisement, I was under impression that this only applied to African Americans. And there was a lot of attention on the African American community, the disproportionate impact that it has on the African American community and the history, that racist history of felony disenfranchisement knowing that we seen its reemergence after the slaves were freed during the reconstruction era as part of a slew of Jim Crow laws that was meant to basically minimize the political impact of African Americans. But as I was traveling throughout the State of Florida, man, I started meeting people like Neil. And my eyes started slowly opening, understanding that, wait a minute, this don't only impact African Americans.Desmond Meade:
They impact white Americans, they impact Latino Americans, all kinds. I went back to thinking about how, when I was arrested, the policing asked if I was a Republican, a Democrat and nor did the judge. But at the end of the day, what I seen was that man, there was almost three times as many whites and Latinos that was impacted than they were African Americans. When you group the white and Latinos, African Americans, only really accounted for about a third of people who were disenfranchised in Florida. And so we knew that if we were going to address this issue, it just couldn't be an African American issue, which meant that we had to recognize, we had to acknowledge and we had to engage the white community.Desmond Meade:
And when we were able to do that, it really allowed our message to be universal. And no matter what the race was, that universal language that we used was able to connect with everyone. And what we did was we actually elevated it even above this issue, even above the implicit racial biases that we experienced in this country, and especially in the State of Florida for quite some time. And we were able to bring unlikely folks together to actually say yes on IV.Gerald Lenoir:
I know the other thing that you have high importance for is engaging everyone regardless of political affiliation or ideology in your work. Can you talk more about why this framing is important?Neil Volz:
Yeah. I mean, I think the framing around connecting people along the lines of humanity is so foundational for the work that we do. From the bigger picture of seeing people as people. I think that that sets that fundamental frame every day we get up, how do we help guide anybody who we're working with from that perspective, but it also had a very tangible, when we get into just the conversation around Amendment IV and getting 60% of the vote in the State of Florida, then there is kind of this, you're in a moment in time and you have a campaign and a goal that you're trying to achieve, that you then have to operationalize some of these things without ever varying from the fundamentals.Neil Volz:
And I think it's very important to know that there's a heartbeat to this new movement. That Amendment IV was a reflection of that and the fight continues, but we were in the State of Florida in which, I mean, look, everybody who knew anything was saying you can't pass something like this in the State of Florida, you're going to talk about crime and race and talk about voting and you're going to have to get 60% of the vote. But I think that some of the strategies were simply birthed out of the natural view of connecting with people along the lines of humanity. If you walked the trailer park right across from where I live, man, you're talking the same talk as you are if you walk into an urban community predominantly African Americans.Neil Volz:
I think that with Desmond's, I love how he shares his story, because mine comes from the other place where it's like, I needed to learn and continue to learn about what the experience is like with folks who are Black or who have a different experience than I had, but we all also have some same experiences that hold us together. And I think there's a dynamism that there's a commitment to giving people the space to grow and change and learn that is important to the work too, that we are not a snapshot that we actually can be in proximity to each other, have real healthy differences that come from healthy places and then change together in some ways or at least learn together.Desmond Meade:
There's another piece to that too, Gerald and it's about how do we imagine democracy. What is democracy all about? Because I know that there was a point when you talk about the birth of this country, where it was basically white men or landowners that was able to be able to vote, participate in democracy and that expanded. And it included people who weren't landowners, they included women and it just kept expanding. And so there is that concept about one man, one vote, and that no matter what the color of your skin, no matter what your political preferences is, that as American citizen, that you have a right to be able to voice or participate in selecting who governs you or who is handling the affairs of society. And so when we talk about really advocating for a more inclusive democracy, then we cannot engage in just advocating for democracy for people who we think, think like us, or vote like us, or look like us because once we do that, then that's not what democracy is all about.Desmond Meade:
Democracy is at cornucopia of ideas, of principles, a cornucopia of perspectives and realities that come together to form this vibrant thing that serves as, I guess, the glue of our society. And so even with our engagement with Amendment IV, we would tell folks that, listen, we're fighting just as hard for that person who wanted to vote for Donald Trump, as we were for that person who wish they could have voted for president Barack Obama. Because at the end of the day, what we know is that every American citizen should have a clear and unencumbered access to the ballot box and should be given the opportunity to have their voices heard when it comes time to elections.Gerald Lenoir:
Yeah. Desmond, I want to return to this notion of bridging, and I've heard you describe bridging as something that is naturally within us. And this work is about reawakening what God has already placed in us. Can you talk more about this in the context of your work with returning citizens.Desmond Meade:
I'm reminded of a story I wrote in my book, Let My People Vote. And I talk about a relationship that I had with this young lady named Amy. We were both kids. We were like kindergarten age and Amy was white and I was Black, but we didn't even recognize that. And she was the granddaughter of an evangelist that was on the Island of St. Croix that was opening up a church. And our family was a part of that church, but it came time for Amy to leave. And the story that I wrote in my book was about how when Amy and her family was leaving, Amy and I was in the middle of the airport hugging each other, screaming our lungs out because we didn't want to be separated.Desmond Meade:
And our parents had to come and grab us and pull us apart and go our separate ways. And then we would break free from our parents, run back to each other and just cling to each other for dear life. That is something that is natural. The vision, all of these isms are things that are actually taught, but it's not part our just natural beings. And we see that every day. Most recently in the tragedy that happened in South Florida, when the condominiums collapse in the City of Surfside. That when those first responders and folks went to that scene and they were digging in that rubble, no one was concerned about how the people voted or what their immigration status was or their sexual identity or how much money they made.Desmond Meade:
The only thing that they connected with was that it was another human being. And there were people digging in that rubble as if their own kin folks was buried underneath. And that's the connectivity of our humanity that transcends our partisan leanings or political leanings that transcends our implicit racial bias. And I believe that if that can show up in moments of crisis, if that could show up after hurricanes, then that means that there is a good possibility that that can show up during our everyday lives, that we don't we don't have to wait for these things to occur and that we could start engaging in that. And I know it is going to be hard because we have political forces that seek to divide us. But at the end of the day, I think we can overcome that and we could actually see more instances of people just coming together, irrespective of their beliefs and really honoring the humanity, the shared humanity among us.Gerald Lenoir:
Yes. Neil, I want to turn back to this issue of Amendment IV and the campaign around Amendment IV. And you mentioned there was some doubting Thomases about whether or not you could reach the 60% threshold to get Amendment IV pass. Can you talk about what those disagreements were and any aspects of the approach you took to the work to quell some of those doubts?Neil Volz:
Well, I mean, I think that some of the doubts were just kind of the fear of the status quo of this is what we know, and this is how we've always done work. And kind of the way that this movement led by Des has kind of reoriented how we see our organizing and how we show up with people. We simply were dedicated to going and talking and empowering people who are returning citizens in the state. I think sometimes there's this general orientation that it's like the politics flows through the narrative around the politicians. Well, we made a decision. We didn't want politicians involved in this kind of the messaging or we didn't want politicians with us on stages when we were talking about Amendment IV. Our fundamental belief was that if we could empower local people to share their stories, and trust me, as somebody who, by the time I met Desmond, inadvertently, I didn't even realize how much I had done it. I had built my life away from my felony conviction.Neil Volz:
To the point when I jumped fully in, some of my closest friends were like, "I didn't even know you had a felony conviction." And so it's like Testament to, yes, you can move on and you can grow and you can choose how you want to see yourselves. But we have people with felony convictions all across the State of Florida. They got the vision. They understood that they were the mission. If they got out and talked to their local paper, talked to their local radio station, went and talked to 200 people in the community, we could see what we saw in November of 2018, which is individual voters going and voting for loved ones. They did not go vote for a governor candidate. They did not vote for a Senate candidate. They went and voted for their aunt or their neighbor or that person they go to school with.Neil Volz:
And that is a Testament to building a frame around real values that are pretty universal and love. And we did make some very concerted efforts in terms of bridge building with people from all walks of life and to use language that did not divide. Even the idea, I believe that in the constitution there's a right to vote. I'm a democracy activist. I dedicate my life to the principles of democracy, but we also realize that half the public believes that the voting is a privilege. We decided to say, we have a goal here in this moment, in this time to get this passed. Those are worthy debates to have, but not in this moment and this time. We use language that talked about allowing people to have the ability to vote so as to not trigger one side of the other or pit one side to another. There were examples of doing things intentionally like that to make sure that the we was as broad as possible and that we are simply focused on real lives of real people, especially at the local level.Desmond Meade:
Gerald, I got to add that, in one case, it was understandable about the naysayers. I mean, because at the end of the day, you're talking about engaging in a very controversial subject which was restoring voting rights of people with felony convictions, doing it in a controversial state such as Florida. And during the controversial moment in our country's history where there was so much division and fear that was being spread around. And I'm not even going to say issue, let me walk that back. The problem was that people were looking at that through a political lens. And there was some very erroneous assumptions that was being made. Assumption number one, that felonies enfranchisement was totally a Black issue. Assumption number two, that all Black people vote Democrat. And then assumption number three if you give Black people who have felony conviction the right to vote, they're going to vote Democrat and it's going to be bad for Republicans.Desmond Meade:
And that's looking at it squarely through a political lens or the type of lens that just keep us divided along the lines of race or political beliefs. And those filters completely ignored the fact that number one, that this thing impacted more than just African Americans. And it impacted more than just Democrats. And that a lot of the folks who were impacted weren't even in prison. These were people that was without our communities, in our churches, at our jobs, these were everyday people.Desmond Meade:
And we were able to overcome that because we were able to move all of those lenses that said that we needed to be different, that we needed to be separated. And we were able to bring people together. And the bonding force that we used to bring those people together was love. We organized around love. And that love was able to break through the cloud of whether you left or right or Black or white or Latin X, or it was able to break through all of that other and take us to a very pure place that allowed us to be successful.Gerald Lenoir:
I know that the amendment, even though you were successful it excludes people who've committed certain crimes like murder or felony sexual assault. My understanding is that this was a strategic choice, the campaign needed to get 60% of the Floridians to vote for the initiative. And that may have been too high a bar if opponents attack it as benefiting people with certain criminal histories. But you were successful in building this bridge of empathy and solidarity with other returning citizens also with criminal records. How were you able to do that and do you foresee in the future being able to extend that kind of empathy to those with murder and felony sexual assault convictions who in this round did not benefit from Amendment IV.Desmond Meade:
Well, that empathy has always been there. Our belief is that no American citizens should be denied access to the ballot box because of a felony offense, none whatsoever. That they should be to vote. But this speaks to even some of the challenges that a lot of grassroots organizations, even across the country face today. How far can you go without having the public along with you. We may have the greatest ideas in our minds that we could have that vision of utopia and you could push for that and you can go out there. But if the public is not with you, at the end of the day when all of the votes counted, you're going to be looking around saying what the heck just happened. And so we were very, very, very thorough in analyzing the beliefs or the feelings of many demographics, whether they were conservative, whether they were progressive, whether they're white, Black, Latinx, we went throughout the entire state.Desmond Meade:
And it was very clear to us from every demographic, that it was going to be a problem. Being at Florida was the toughest state to pass constitutional amendment. That it would've been some serious problems if people with felony sex offense in particular rapists, child molesters, and people who kill people, there would've been a huge problem in actually getting that pass. We agonized over that for months. It actually delayed the campaign for about six to seven months. We did even further analysis. And couple of things that really allowed us to move forward was that number one, at that time it was over 1.5, 4 million people who were impacted by felony disenfranchisement in Florida. I think less than 2% were people who fit those categories. And so you had basically 98% of the people would benefit from the passage of Amendment IV.Desmond Meade:
The other thing was that we engaged even some of our own members who fell into those categories, or we engaged their parents of people who fell into those categories. And we walked through that process with them. And we realized that even though what Amendment IV did was give you a fast track to be able to get the right to vote back. But it did not automatically foreclose on people being able go through the alternative route which was through the clemency process to get their voting rights back. There was still hope there for those individuals that felt within those categories, but we knew through extensive research that Amendment IV would not have been successful if it was just a blanket application.Neil Volz:
Yeah. And if I could just add to that, because like Desmond said, the carve outs aren't a reflection of our morals and values, but a reflection of a strategic decision to move as far as we possibly can, as quick as we possibly can. And we saw that the backside of that, after the amendment passed, in which the legislature, when they began the process of implementing Amendment IV, even though we told them we didn't think there needed to be implementing language, they took that on themselves. And you suddenly saw that they were trying to expand the definition of murder for instance, into things like manslaughter, attempted murder and redefining some of the very words. Again, we keep coming back to this bridging concept and the importance of words, but those are tens of thousands of lives that all of a sudden the legislature somewhat willy nilly is like, oh, well, we're just going to expand this thing step by step by step.Neil Volz:
And when you're focused on people the way that we are, you're seeing tens of thousands of human beings suddenly being moved from one side of the line to the other when, to your point, our goal is that everybody can be restored and that no one should lose their fundamental rights to be heard in society. And that we want to keep pushing the other way. But Des is right on in terms of we need to have and be aware of where the public is on the issues that are important to us as we fight for humanity, if we are to be successful.Gerald Lenoir:
I want to return to the theme of this podcast bridging to belonging. How would you say that your work fosters an authentic sense of belonging among those impacted and can you tell me a story that illustrates that.Desmond Meade:
My initial reaction to that is that one of the way that we do that is by restoring the right to vote folks because when these folks get the right to vote, when we get the right to vote, then we force people to have to deal with our issues because we actually have the power to actually determine the outcome of even local elections. I mean, when you talk about district attorney races, judicial races, mayoral races, all of those offices are susceptible to influence by the people who historically have been shut out of the process. And so now that they have the right to vote back, we've actually forced ourselves onto the scene and we're a growing force to be reckon with. But even on a personal level, I can talk about one of our members who used to ... She wanted to vote so bad. Every election, she used to go down to the supervisor of elections office just to watch people vote.Desmond Meade:
She yearned for it so much. And then eventually, because of the passage of Amendment IV, she was able to get her right to vote back. But she didn't stop there. Right. When elections came around, she was one of the many returning citizens that participated in classes so that they can be poll watches. And so now she's out there, not only just voting, but she is actively participating in our democracy as a poll watcher. And you see the transformation in her, from someone who is unsure of themselves or someone who was walking with their head down to someone now who stands proudly and firm, firmly on the ground saying that, listen, no, I belong and I matter my voice count. And I'm going to be active and play a significant role in ensuring that our democracy flourishes.Desmond Meade:
And so we see stories like that all the time. And it's amazing what the restoration of voting rights can do to an individual who, for however many years was told that they don't belong, that they're the scotch of the earth and they have to be a felon and the lowest, I guess, have the lowest part on the totem pole for the rest of their lives.Neil Volz:
The example that I keep coming back to there was gentleman named Von who came to our advocacy day. We typically bring seven, 800 returning citizens to Tallahassee. And this is after Amendment IV, so suddenly, people were starting to see that their voices are being heard. And what I saw in this moment was because I was blessed to be able to walk with him to different offices was the power of that story suddenly the level playing field that Des was just talking about in which now, hey, we've got vote so people are going to listen so suddenly you have access, but then the story itself, his story was one in which, while he was incarcerated, he learned how to be a barber and that's something that's very fulfilling to him.Neil Volz:
It helped build community as he's cutting people's hair and talking to folks while he is doing that, mind you that the tax dollars are paid to train him to be a barber. And then when he is released, society is actually telling him, you can't get the license to be a barber even though the past that comes. And when I think of authenticity, which was a part of your word, I think that it's living in the moment honestly. And his story in and of itself said, look at my past how I got here and where are we going in the future? Can you defend continuing this policy that doesn't work. Republican, Democrat did not matter. You could not sit with him and talk to anybody and have them defend that policy going forward.Neil Volz:
Even the idea of everybody's voice matters, it also is like, what are we saying? We're taking our stories and sharing them in a way. And in some cases, people had no idea that that was even a problem, but we were able to help solve that particular issue in that year because you can't defend that, there is no defending that. And so it was really neat from the bridge building perspective to see what happens when somebody gets their voice back. And then they're able to take, let me share my story with you so that you can understand better some of the challenges we face, and we saw a bridge get built in that moment, and at least, I'm a hopeful person. I know Des is a hopeful person. We need that hope to fuel this movement. And so that was a very hopeful moment that when we build bridges, you can make changes.Gerald Lenoir:
Yes. I know that you're not stopping with the 2018 ballot victory in Florida, and you continue on addressing some of the barriers that the state government has put in front of you for the implementation of the Amendment IV and also working to restore all the civil rights of returning citizens like the ability to serve on a jury. What do you think your continuing work, restoring civil rights and continuing work on amendment. Why do you think it's so important to the communities that you serve?Neil Volz:
Empowering people who have been impacted by the justice system. It actually impacts all of us, not only does it impact how we see each other and how we identify with each other, but on a very tangible level, it has incredible impact in our communities. We're working right now a lot with people who are looking to find employment and people who are looking to hire folks, and you see this kind of synergy coming together in which if somebody is able to reintegrate into the community, get employment, find housing, well, that's going to be a benefit. It's a transformative type of thing for an individual, the family of the individual. And in the process that helps the community because let's face it, if somebody is coming out of your community supervision, incarceration, trying to reintegrate into the community, and there isn't an available pathway we're going to start going back to what we know how to do.Neil Volz:
It's like, oh, okay, I'm going to fall back and potentially that's going to be a negative impact on the community. We feel that by focusing on empowering returning citizens, our families, our loved ones, the chain is only as strong as its weakest link that ultimately this impacts all of us, even beyond how we identify and how we see each other in our community as it relates to better schools, better hospitals and the ability to tangibly improve people's lives.Desmond Meade:
You said it. When I think of democracy, I think about the body, one of the most important elements in the body is actually water. And how democracy is like this body that needs water and the water is actually people participating and voting. One of the things that we realized very early on was that there's no better emissary or ambassador to talk about how valuable the right to vote is and how we honor that right by actually going out to vote and participating in elections. There's no one better to talk about that than someone who's lost the right to vote and had to fight long and hard to get it back. And so in addition to our own individual restoration of voting rights that we can be a catalyst to restore a level of energy or infuse a level of energy around participating in democracy.Desmond Meade:
We could be a catalyst for creating a more vibrant and more inclusive democracy. And that is so important because the more people participate, the more environment this democracy become. And I think that's good for everyone. And so I don't just want to tell people who I think might vote like me to make sure they go vote. I want everybody to go vote because the more people that engage and we seen that happen even in 2020 elections that we seen the turnout, like none of it before. And it was made even more special because it was a turnout that occurred in the midst of a pandemic when there was so much concern about turnout. We've seen a record number of first time voters, we've seen a record number of young voters. We've seen a record number of people with felony convictions actually going to the polls and voting.Desmond Meade:
And the majority of them voting early, man, that is something to celebrate. And we want to continue to build on that. We want to continue to generate an excitement about being engaged. And so those individuals who don't have a felony conviction who never lost the right to vote and are registered, but don't vote, man we need to get them voting. And those who are eligible to register to vote but are not, we need to get them registered and voting as well. And so that's all part of the process. And I think that we're good ambassadors to really push that.Gerald Lenoir:
My final question really is, again, looking towards the future and in your work with returning citizens. And my question is, do you see this as a movement or an identity that endures beyond the issue of re-enfranchisement and how does that happen?Desmond Meade:
You and these tough questions. I don't know if I can really be able to articulate this nuances between whether this is a movement or this is something other than a movement. What I think when I look at this is that this is an attempt to transform the way we think about each other, transform to debunk a narrative that has for decades separated us, a narrative that we see even today in full effect even around this pandemic where we're separating people and dehumanizing people based on whether they want to wear a mask or not and totally forgetting about the health and the humanity of folks. And so I see this as something bigger. I think movement might minimize what it is that we're trying to accomplish.Desmond Meade:
And I think how we accomplish it, even though I can't give you a name for what we're doing, I think how we accomplish it is really just by continuing to be out there and to challenge people to do things different. We did that with Amendment IV. We went against a lot of conventional wisdom in Amendment IV, and we was able to show the world that we didn't have to tear each other down to be successful. We didn't have to instill fear in each other to be successful, that we could actually move major human rights issues through love.Desmond Meade:
And we're going to continue to do that because at the end of the day it's always been said that hate can't drive out hate and fear can't drive out fear and darkness can't drive darkness out, but that love can conquer so much. And so we are going to continue to let that be our driving force and have hope and faith that love will overcome these isms, love will overcome these narratives and allow us to understand that when we look at each other, what we see as a reflection of ourselves, and that there's so much of our humanity, that is tying us together, then those petty things that actually separate us.Neil Volz:
Yeah. And I would just add to that ... I love Desmond man, and I feel like family with him. And as he was talking, I was thinking about when Des got a name to Time 100 most influential people in the world list, and people were asking me like, "Hey, what's so special about Desmond." And it's this effusive love that he has, but a belief in humanity. That our differences are our strengths and that being in proximity to other human beings brings with it an energy. And that's not some sort of a secret call for everybody to see things the same way and believe things the same way as much as a belief in loving other people, that in my life some of the best change that I've ever made in my life came about when somebody loved me enough to disagree with what I was seeing or doing and that we should be strong enough in our commitment to diversity to be able to be in proximity with each other and listen, and learn and move forward in a way that's focused on people and we can learn from each other.Neil Volz:
And that does that. And that's why I love just that Des, you taking the movement might be too small because when you think of Des is wearing a shirt right now, it says let my people vote. But that's like, let my people work, let my people rent, let my people drive, let's let people be people. And that's when we know that we're winning.Gerald Lenoir:
That was President Desmond Mead and political director, Neil Volz of the Florida Rights Restoration Coalition. Thank you so much for your time. And to our listener, please check out our other podcast where we discuss belonging and bridging in more details. For more resources and curriculums on belonging and bridging, please go to belonging.berkeley.edu/b for B, that is slash letter B number 4 letter B. To follow our guest work, go to Floridarcc.com. Thank you for listening.