This June 11 panel of thinkers and organizers from the Solidarity Council on Racial Equity talks about how solidarity makes a difference in the lives of people impacted by the US Supreme Court ruling to ban affirmative action. It included Maria Hinajosa, Linda Sarsour, Kent Wong, Rachel Godsil, Rabbi Jonah Dov Pesner, and john powell.
Transcript
Maria Hinojosa:
Hey everybody, or as I usually say, what's up? What's up? What's up? Although I don't usually say that on the radio, but what's up? What's up? What's up? It's Maria Hinojosa. I know, I've got a huge smile on my face and we're talking about something very serious. But we're going to talk about it, I think, in a way that's really important. So I'm really glad that all of you are joining us. This is a conversation between the SCoRE members and also with the Othering and Belonging Institute. The SCoRE members are the Solidarity Council on Racial Equity. We've been talking about kind of getting ready for this moment for a while. As I said, on a platform once known as Twitter, this has been in the works for a long time. The question is, how do we respond? In what way do we respond?What do we learn from the past? What do we learn from young people in the past? What do we think about what can happen in the future? How do we do this within a context of solidarity when this is clearly a move to divide people who are not white? We understand this, so how do we respond to this in a creative, smart way and part of our deep democracy? I'm just the facilitator for the conversation, and I've told everybody who I'm about to introduce that they must interrupt each other. Don't be afraid if people start interrupting each other. This is a group of people that have been in community in multiple different settings, very serious, very social, very dramatic, very fun. So we have a constant dialogue, and really, it's my honor to introduce extraordinary human beings. And they're going to pop up on screen, as it were, as I go.
john a. powell is a law professor and the director of the Othering and Belonging Institute at the University of California Berkeley. He's also a very tall brother who I just love having profound conversations with. It's good to see you, john powell. Rachel Godsil is a co-founder and senior advisor to the Perception Institute and professor of Law at Rutgers Law School. Welcome Rachel. Kent Wong, another very tall dude who I love having philosophical conversations with is the director of the UCLA Labor Center where he teaches labor studies and ethnic studies. Linda Sarsour is my Palestinian sister from Brooklyn. Shout out from Harlem to you. She is a frontline organizer and a justice movement leader. And Rabbi Jonah Dov Pesner is the director of the Religious Action Center of Reform Judaism and somebody who, again, we share a lot of conversations with.
So john, you actually... I'm so glad that we were together recently in Johannesburg in South Africa, and we had a meeting amongst the SCoRE members to talk about what was going to happen with the Supreme Court. And you really helped me to reframe and we do a lot of reframing in the work that I do as a journalist. So I'm going to let you tell us one, what has really happened. What is your quick takeaway of what this just happened in the SCOTUS, but also what's the quick reframing? We're going to let you say that without being interrupted, but after you're done, everybody else is going to be able to interrupt everybody else.
john powell:
Well, Maria, thanks for the intro, and it's always good to be in conversation with you and the fellow SCoRE members. The Supreme Court in Students for Fair Admission, a case that involved North Carolina and Harvard, struck down using race as a factor to promote diversity. It was actually important for a number of reasons. The court had upheld that since 1978, starting with Bakke, upheld it again in a case called Grutter in University of Michigan, 2003. And then it upheld again in a case called Fisher versus UC Texas in 2016. So it was a long precedent for over many years, for the court had basically said diversity was important and race as plus factor could be used to promote diversity. So what changed between 2016? In this case, was the composition of the court. We had the three members of the court appointed by Trump who all joined, and that was the major shift.There's another shift as well. First time that private universities have been the focus of affirmative action based on race, and that's under Title VI of the Civil Rights Act. The 14th amendment only applies to public entities or state action. So it expanded it. Even in places like Michigan and California, and Washington, had already cut back on using race as a plus factor. It has implications because those private schools in those states were not covered. So they expanded it. And then there was some issue as to whether or not you could still be conscious that is trying to achieve racial diversity. The court could have said, "No, you can't even try to achieve it. Even using race neutral ways." The court didn't go that far. So they left some opening saying, there are race neutral ways that you could try to actually achieve diversity.
And even went a little further, Chief Justice Roberts said that there was nothing in the opinion that prevented students and people who are reviewing them from talking about overcoming racial discrimination. It's a little bit odd. And then one of the things that, I'll open it up, it's a long case, I think over 200 pages. A lot of nuance, a lot of legalese that I won't get into. But one of the things that's interesting and important footnote, Justice Roberts made the point that this case does not cover the military. He said there are two reasons for that. One is that military was not before the court. They did submit amicus brief, but the other, he said they are in a different circumstance. They submitted amicus brief saying diversity was a compelling government interest in the military in a matter of national security. It's hinting that we might allow the military to use race, but we're not going to allow colleges and universities.
Maria Hinojosa:
But to say that it's for national security, to say that affirmative action can stand in military academies for national security, you could make the argument that making sure that colleges and universities are representative is also a form of national security for the future. I see you, Rachel. Jump in, Rachel, because I'm just like the... We always celebrate only soldiers, but what about teachers? They are the true heroes. I don't know why they don't get on the plane first, but help me to understand, Rachel, why you're just like yes, yes, yes, because it doesn't boggle the mind in many ways, john and Rachel and the team. It's like the Supreme Court is showing you exactly who they are. You cannot use affirmative action ever in a private or public school setting. But with the military where we're going to send you to war, it's okay.Rachel Godsil:
So Maria, the reason I was nodding so enthusiastically is because you were saying, "It's a matter of national security," and the American people will agree with you. What john and I, the Belonging Institute and the Perception Institute did to prepare to think about how this case might be understood by the public before the case came out is we did some research to find out how would people across race and ethnicity want to hear about the outcome of this case and what would be important to them. What we tested was did people want to hear about the goals that undergirded affirmative action and that we should still be striving for or the worst possible fears of what might happen? What we found was, the vast majority of people across race, across ethnicity, across age, even across politics, wanted to hear about the goals. The goal specifically that struck people most profoundly was exactly what you just said, which is the idea that a better future for all of us depends upon people learning together.They also applauded and felt really strongly about this idea that colleges should choose opportunity over exclusion. So American people agree with the point, I think, you were making. It's not just national security as vis-a-vis the military., It's our global security and it's our country's future. That's why I was nodding because that's what the American people want to hear.
Maria Hinojosa:
And it's true. All right. Team. Jump in. Who's coming up?Rabbi Jonah Dov Pesner:
Can I jump in? Can I jump in on that point?Maria Hinojosa:
Yeah.Rabbi Jonah Dov Pesner:
I got to just lift up the name student Rabbi Evan Traylor, who is a young Black Jewish man who posted on Facebook and publicly. So folks should just look up Rabbi Evan Traylor who said, "So basically what you're saying is we can't consider race to create that beautiful diverse vision," that Rachel just talked about, "but we can send young Black and brown men like me to die." I hate to be so provocative, but that is what... You said we know who this-Maria Hinojosa:
I don't think it's provocative at all. I think it's... Again, to talk about it with a sense of normalcy is to give it normalcy. It's not normal. It's the weirdest, strangest decision. Again, boggles the mind will be what I'm going to take away. But then again, it's not boggling, right? They're showing us why. I did interrupt you, Rabbi, so go ahead.Rabbi Jonah Dov Pesner:
No, no. Evan also, if he were here, he would teach the beautiful text that grounds Jewish tradition and is shared by my Muslim family and my Christian family as well, that when the holy one created humanity, the holy one created the first human so that none of us could elevate ourselves based on any category, race, economics, or otherwise above one another. Frankly, it also says that God created the wholeness of the earth and the fullness thereof in its abundance mode. We're having the wrong conversation, if we're talking about fighting over slots at an institution. Everybody should have access to education, and education should be rich and full and diverse for all people. Because if all of us had the opportunity to study alongside people of different economic, racial, ethnic, religious backgrounds and all receive quality education, we'd all thrive. The court has distracted the conversation that we should be having, which is what's the world we want to live and where everybody thrives?Maria Hinojosa:
Kent, I'm imagining that because you like me, I'm also a professor because I'm Mexican and I have 16 jobs. I also know that in the university settings it can become really divisive.I have kids who went to school here in Manhattan. That whole notion of, "Well, you got in just because of your last name or who you are or because of what box you checked." That kind of... And I'm just being honest here, mostly came from white kids to my kids. But in this whole conversation about what happened with the Supreme Court, the narrative, and sadly many in the mainstream media continue to have this argument. Well, again, it's pitting Asian people against everyone else. So I know you've got all kinds of... Because if there's anybody who represents serious solidarity in action and who hangs out more in Mexico City, the city I was born in than me, it's you. You were all about solidarity across the board, so talk to us aloud how we dismantle that divisive narrative.Kent Wong:
Well, great to be with you, Maria, and to engage in this very important conversation. What we are seeing is a very dramatic rollback by the conservative majority on the US Supreme Court that is undermining the very foundation of a multiracial democracy within our society, and that all of the gains that have been struggled, fought for and won, including voting rights, the basic right for people of color to be able to exercise their fundamental right to vote is under attack. And that the US Supreme Court is lining up but with the people that are trying to undermine the right of communities of color to vote. The attack on ethnic studies, the hard won gains that go back decades and decades to lift up the contributions, the stories of communities of color that have played an integral role in building this country are under attack. And they attract an affirmative action, which has helped to diversify colleges and universities across the country, has helped to diversify the workplace. It's helped to diversify the boardrooms, which never would have changed had it not been for affirmative action.And a very divisive attempt by those attacking affirmative action is to try to lift up the myth that somehow Asian-Americans are being harmed by affirmative action. That is not the case. That is not true. Indeed, the vast majority of Asian-Americans support affirmative action. The right wing is seizing on a very small vocal group within the Asian-American community that embrace a right wing agenda. So let us be very clear that the Asian-American community has benefited from affirmative action, stands in solidarity with other communities of color. The very existence of the Asian-American community is based on the Black-led civil rights movement that struck down racially discriminatory policies in this country that existed for more than 80 years, excluding the very existence of Asians in this country. So that is the victory of the civil rights movement, as was the establishment of affirmative action.
Maria Hinojosa:
I do think it's important to talk in very concrete ways about acts of solidarity. I'm coming to you, Linda, obviously. But I want to set this up with, when I wrote my book, Once I Was You: A Memoir. It was in that moment when I realized that the first people who were excluded by law in this country are Asian women, or the so-called paycheck. And then it was the Chinese Exclusion Act, and that exclusion is connected to me. The women who were excluded were like my mom just coming to meet my dad who had come to work in the United States.And then it's not just solidarity, it's that we have a common pain. The moms who weren't able to come to be with their husbands when they were building the railroads. Linda, my question to you, because you are a frontline organizer, you have to deal with this all the time. Can you talk about this, the trickling down of the narrative of coming after each other, and what you're facing as an organizer? Yet, as Dolores Huerta says, there is always an opportunity to organize, always an opportunity. What's going on for you, Linda?
Linda Sarsour:
Always an opportunity. I think, for me, when I think about what's happening right now with affirmative action, it just sets a bad precedent. As an Arab American for the last 20 years, we've been part of a campaign to add the MENA category, which is Middle East North Africa. Because as many people know, people who are like me from the Levant region, anywhere from the North African countries or as far as Yemen and others, we're considered white by the United States government. In fact, Arab Americans have never really been able to benefit from things like affirmative action or for example, special grants for small business owners as Arab Americans are quite entrepreneurial. But we don't really benefit based on the fact that we are considered white by the US census. We support affirmative action in hopes at some point we were going to be included in this larger categories.In fact, the United States government, under the Obama administration tested the MENA category during a off year for the census, and it actually tested very well. We were in fact going to have the MENA category added to the 2020 census. But as you all know, during the Trump administration, that was actually deleted off the agenda. So they set us back 20 years. We hope that we can continue on this path. One thing that I'll say about the affirmative action decision is it is an actual opportunity for organizing. We would've never needed affirmative action if we didn't live in a country that is based on systemic racism. That's the point that affirmative action is a response to systemic racism. T`hat puts the onus back on us as the people in the United States of America, those of us who support things like affirmative action, who support equity, who support racial justice.
That goes back to the leadership of these universities. Will they continue as people and as leaders to be committed to diversifying their student population? Are we going to then focus on our work at building power around targeting the Supreme Court and reforms? For example, doing away with this minority majority vote that happens to even confirm Supreme Court justices. We can confirm people literally by one vote, which means that all Supreme Court justices so far have been a reflection of whatever the dominant party is. Why do we allow that that it's only, excuse me, a simple majority that actually puts these people in place. Do people consider expanding the court? Is there an opportunity for potential term limits? This is a conversation that we need to have because a lot of our communities, Maria, we don't have any recourse for justice in this country.
A lot of people put their hopes in the Supreme Court. People go all the way up. Now, I'm afraid for people to sue anybody. Don't sue anybody right now because if you sue anybody and you get to the Supreme Court, I'm telling you right now, based on the current makeup of the court, there's a 99.9% chance that it's not going to go in favor of the most marginalized people. When people tell me, "Oh. Well, the ACLU is about to sue and this." I'm like, "I don't know how I feel about that anymore." I'm actually-
Maria Hinojosa:
It's weird, right, Linda? Because we have this... Since I wasn't born in this country and I had to raise my right hand in order to become a citizen. So you're raising your right hand because you believe in certain institutions like the Supreme Court. I think you're right, Linda. I think the conversation about affirmative action is huge. There's another conversation about the... I don't know. You all fill in the word, about the Supreme Court. The fact that we have lost faith in one of these powerful institutions. At the same time, is it an opportunity? I'm going to throw it open to the group now because we understand, and we move in the understanding of structural racism. Structural, we understand that. What kind of movement opportunity is there to have a conversation about structural racism that actually has an impact, that actually makes people... Again, Rachel has already said, "Well, we can continue to have that conversation, but people are actually in a agreement on this."Rachel Godsil:
So thanks for that. But again, I want to address one thing that Linda said because you made such an important point about the risks of suing. But I want to lift up the opportunities we have in state courts because when people have been harmed and wronged, depending upon the state, and this is what's completely... This is where the organizing has to happen because everyone needs to have rights across the whole country, and we need our federal courts back, and we need fairness of our federal courts. But in the meantime, there's also some potential for exciting opportunities in state courts to show what it means to have rights. In those states where you have attorneys general who are progressive and where you have state supreme courts that understand rights expansively, that along with organizing to try and create what it looks like to have universal access to education and universal access to justice in meaningful ways.We can experience these ideals that we're all fighting for. When people see what that looks like, that's when we can make that movement, a national one and continue to push that forward nationally. But I hope we keep in mind when people are wrong. There may be opportunities in state courts that can be powerful. Of course, obviously the organizing that has to happen across the country.
john powell:
Let me jump in.Maria Hinojosa:
Go ahead, john. Go ahead. Go ahead.john powell:
The thing is, it is. We should broaden the conversation. There were 10 states that already eliminated affirmative action. They didn't do it in courts. They didn't do it federal court or state court. They did it at the ballot. These are discussions about what is America. Jesse Jackson said, "There's no text without context." We're talking about higher Ed. At the same time, the same court, they're saying it can't use race to actually integrate desegregate higher Ed. These same courts are saying it's okay for K12 to be segregated. And not just segregated from each other by race, but segregated from opportunity. In Texas, for example, the US Supreme Court said, "It's okay if one school system has a lot of money and another school system has no money." Yeah, that school system that doesn't have much money are largely Latino schools.So it's creating a system where for the first 12 years of education, this court is saying it's okay for it to be unequal. It's okay for it to be unfair. And then after 12 years, it's saying, now we're going to say the students should compete on the same. In California, there were 900 students who graduated from high school with 4.0, which is all As every course. And they didn't get into UCLA and Berkeley, and they sued saying that, "We did everything we could." These were mainly Black and Latino kids. They said, "No, it doesn't matter," Because AP classes offered at some schools which had more resources, gave those schools, those students this leg up. So it's important just not just take a snapshot of what happened then. One last thing, Bakke 1978, the case was about discrimination. The case was about the history of this country. The case was about structural racism.
Basically, Powell said, none of that matters. We can't litigate based on societal discrimination. We can't look at structures. We can't look at that. Our history is irrelevant. He changed the focus from discrimination to diversity. I think diversity is important, but I think also the conditions in which people live and our history is also important. So we have to both hold onto our history, look at diversity, and maybe most important, think about our future.
Maria Hinojosa:
I wonder, and I don't remember if we talked about this, but there is a feeling of the structural racism, of the white supremacy in our country. Basically saying not fast, not anymore. But there's also this other reality team that has happened, which is that our country is becoming increasingly diverse. However you want to name it, the white American population is decreasing. The state of Texas now has a slight majority population of Latinos and Latinas for the first time in history. Well, before Texas was Texas, the United States. But there's this other thing which is about Latinos and Latinas. We're the second largest voting cohort in the United States, and immense political power, but also immense market power. The data that I most recently knew is that Latinos actually have the higher rate now going straight from high school to college. I met a college professor in a small Midwestern college who said, "I have my financial plan set for this small private college in northern Illinois."I was like, "What is it?" And he says, "Everybody in my admissions team is learning how to speak Spanish, and we are focusing on getting Latinos into this school because that's going to be the financial savior for this small private college." So I want to understand how you see that question of colleges and universities, they cannot survive and thrive without us. Again, it's a national security risk to not have the representation there. How does that jive with the structural racism? I'm opening up to anyone who wants to jump in.
Kent Wong:
As someone who has taught at UCLA for more than 30 years, I think that having a diverse student population is absolutely in our national interests. We need to understand that there is systemic inequality in the educational system within our country, and that all of the gains to advance the rights and interests of communities of color have been fought for and won. That's true with affirmative action. That's true with voting rights, that's true with ethnic studies and the inclusion of communities of color in our history books, in our textbooks, in our curriculum. I do think that we have to understand that the US Supreme Court is speaking not for the people of this country. They're speaking for a very small narrow interest of defending white supremacy and the status quo. That's true with most of the history of the US Supreme Court. The US Supreme Court for generations upheld slavery, upheld unequal treatment, upheld the discrimination of women, the denial of the right of women to vote. These were enshrined by the US Supreme Court, and the laws that went before this country. So-Maria Hinojosa:
Kent, when people then say, "That's why it's a hopeless situation. There's nothing to be done," which I've heard. I think that this is another form of voter suppression, is to just kind of only focus on the hopelessness. That's why I always go back to my founding forefather in this country of journalism, Frederick Douglass. Yeah, it's difficult to be a journalist in the United States of America, but I understand what he had to face and the process of getting to this point. So what about that-Kent Wong:
That's why I agree with my sister, Linda Sarsour, that this is an extraordinary opportunity for organizing. That I know that my students at UCLA are deeply committed to racial diversity, to racial justice, to economic justice. I know that people understand that everything that has been fought for and won has been based on struggle organizing and movement building. So I do think that there is a new generation of young people who are deeply committed to a multiracial democracy where everybody has opportunities and not only the sons and daughters of the elite.Linda Sarsour:
I just want to say to Rachel's point, and I think we are coming up on an opportunity right now, and I know that many of us believe that the ballot box isn't the only way or the way to liberation and freedom for our people, but it is definitely a tool that we have access to right now. We're leading up to the 2024 elections, which again is another presidential election. It's also key federal races across the country. Knowing that majority of Americans support things like affirmative action, they support things like reproductive rights, et cetera, using that as an opportunity for us to mainstream these issues during an election. Put people on the stand and say, "Here's what the American people agree with. Do you agree with that?" And making that the issue moving forward, getting people to make commitments. Are people committed to reforms in the Supreme Court?I just don't see any way around it if we don't do some sort of reform. I know that requires some more tedious thought process. I'm not saying go expand the court to 50 Supreme Courts, but there's probably a process in place where there are people that are much smarter than I that can create some sort of process that ensures that there's some fairness and equity even in the way we get to the Supreme Court justices. So I'm just feeling like we do have an opportunity to talk about these issues on the highest echelons of politics in America right now with the backup information and the data that shows that most American people support gun reform, most American support, affirmative action, most American support reproductive rights, most Americans support immigration reform.
There are issues that we actually have data to prove that most Americans do support these issues, but we end up going to talk about the things that where most Americans may not agree. That's what the right-wing is playing on right now. We're in culture wars right now. They are going into minority communities, immigrant communities, religious conservative communities who oftentimes are on our side on 99% of the issues. But the right-wing has found these polarizing issues to divide us from each other, so that they could continue to implement the agendas that continue to harm us all. So I think we could be smarter than that. We could lift the issues that we all agree on, and I think affirmative action is one of them.
Maria Hinojosa:
So Rabbi Pesner, for you, in the question of solidarity, how are you going to make that happen? What's the messaging that's happening in your community about how Jewish people have to show up at this point?Rabbi Jonah Dov Pesner:
Amen to everything that's been said? To me, this is not only an organizing opportunity, which it is. The 2024 election is pivotal as was '22 and as was '20. A lot of us have been organizing networks of tens of thousands of leaders to put these issues on the ballot and hold elected officials accountable to the multiracial, multiethnic, multi-faith democracy that we believe in, and I agree. Most of our folks agree on most things. It's also I think a real opportunity to lean into solidarity at a very local level. The number of communities where the local mosque, the local Black church, the local synagogue, the local Bahai Temple, the local Quaker meeting house, are actually doing the solidarity work of creating what john powell would call a community of belonging. Where it's like, let's talk about policies, let's talk about systems, but let's also be in deep relationship where we're hearing each other's stories and each other's voices. And that we live and breathe the multiracial, inclusive, multi-faith community that we want to be in. And out of the understanding of the proximity of knowing one another, we live the diversity that we believe in.So we got to fight to disrupt the systems, for sure. We got to put pressure on universities to actually live and breathe what they say they want to be for, and we've got to fight for affirmative action in practice. We also have to model it through our solidarity as well, which I think is super important. By the way, the Supreme Court gave us a gift when Robertson and the majority said, "It's still permissible for individuals to write in their essays about their lived experience and what it meant to be a person of a particular racial background."
One clear message today to all the young people who are watching this is step up, step out, lean in and take your place. Tell your story. Talk about what it is to come from the background that you lived, the experiences of either racism or oppression that you have overcome. And don't be hopeless. Partly, how we'll overcome the Supreme Court decision is if waves of young people make a claim on the legitimate place they have in institutions of higher learning in places of the pluralistic diverse communities that we need our country from a national security perspective to be.
Maria Hinojosa:
Yeah. I don't know about you, but just my whole college experience, and when I was first hired at NPR, it was internalized. And we've talked about this. My sense of otherness was so deep and internalized, and my imposter syndrome was so deep and internalized that I always knew that people were looking at me like, why and how? I was like, on the one hand, it was an integral part of me and on the other hand, to be honest with you, I could have cared less. I find that very interesting. I understood that I was always having to answer in one way or another. So how'd you get here? On the other hand, I was like, I could care less. I was committed to just being a great student and learning to love learning, et cetera.I want to get everybody's take on that sense of what we have to tell our young people now. Because my message has been, "Y'all got this. Never has been easy. Never. But you got this and you got this in so many ways." Because what I would hate is for it to be another form of suppression, which is that young people are like... And it's like, no, you are good enough. You really are good enough. You really, really, really are. You're not only good enough, you're better than. So how do we get that message out?
Kent Wong:
In my view, there is a huge opportunity to mobilize and to organize for quality public education that you have dramatic inequality that exists in our public education system across the country. If you look at the public schools in wealthy neighborhoods, they are not the same schools as those in poor working class neighborhoods where it's mainly students of color. There's dramatic inequality in the education system. And our country has the resources, has the wealth, has the ability to give all of our children an excellent quality public education. This is what teachers nationally are fighting for. They're fighting for better conditions on the schools for social workers and nurses,, and librarians in each campus across the country. This is what we need to do to expand opportunities for all. It is it so wrong, as john powell pointed out, for there to be court defended inequality that marginalize poor students, students of color in inferior schools.And then when they graduate from high school saying, there should be absolutely no consideration of their racial background in making determinations with regard to who gets into college. So it is building in structural inequality defended by the US Supreme Court. That's where we need to mobilize students, teachers, parents in a fight for quality public education.
Maria Hinojosa:
So Rachel, when you talk about mobilizing students, you're also on campus at Rutgers. How do you... Of course, I'm not an organizer. I admire organizers like Linda, who actually have to figure this out and understand moments in history in which you dive in. How do you dive in this moment? What's the moment in terms of the organizing and what you see with your students on the ground?Rachel Godsil:
It's interesting. I think I'm actually in some ways more with where you were in your last comment. What do we say to young people now? Because Kent is, of course, a 1000% right and as was john, that we need to do everything we can to create structural opportunity for everyone and not to have these differences in what schools offer. But I, at Rutgers, am seeing extraordinary students and a significant majority of Black and Latino students who came from schools that some people would call inferior in the sense that they didn't have the same AP number of AP classes as john said, that they didn't have the same number afterschool programs. Despite that, these students are amazing. You were so right when you said they got this. They write brilliantly. They have extraordinary insights. They've navigated so many different challenges that a kid in a suburb who had every opportunity hasn't had to navigate and shouldn't.No one should have to, but the students who they have so many resources. So I want us to simultaneously fight for the equity that everyone should have, but also celebrate the students who are where they are right now, and to make sure that they know how brilliant they are and that we see that because part of the conversation has to be that everyone who comes into a university is exactly as you described, doesn't feel like, "Why am I here?" You're there because you're awesome.
Maria Hinojosa:
So there's a website, and I'm going to give an opportunity to john to talk about the website. And why you want people to go there, and what you want people to do when they get to that website. You want to do that, john?john powell:
Sure. So we're asking people to pledge solidarity, and you can go to a 1,000 Acts of Solidarity. I think Sarsour, if we can put it up on our screen.Maria Hinojosa:
oursolidarity.org.john powell:
So we're asking people again to step forward. We're asking students to step forward, but we need to step forward as well. There's two other quick things. One, this opinion has implications for Kellogg. Kellogg is the home of SCoRE. It won't just stay in terms of schools. It has implications for corporations, for businesses. We know someone said earlier there're going to be a flood of lawsuits that the right wing is emboldened. They're being told to attack, and they will. Pacific Foundation is already suing corporations for using diversity. So we have to not only be prepared, we have to also sort of think about how do we defend those institutions that stand out? Lawsuits are expensive. They're time-consuming. They're resource depleting. How do we say to someone, "Stand up and fight, and we're going to be with you, both in terms of money and in terms of background."One last thing. The country's actually confused on affirmative action. A lot of people support diversity and actually, but don't support using race as a plus factor and actually don't know the history. So part of it is helping people to understand. Part of it is how we talk about this and this, a lot of work that Rachel and OBI does as well, as well as Maria in terms of how do you frame things, how do you make sure people can hear what you're saying. And how do you structure it so it's not seen as zero-sum because that's the great divide. Their win is our loss, and we have to make it clear. We actually talk about everyone and the country itself. But paying attention to how we tell stories, how we talk about this, is a big part of it as well.
Maria Hinojosa:
Yeah, I agree with you. I think that the notion of reframing... And I really hadn't thought about it in this way, which is keeping affirmative action alive. The ethos of it is actually an essential part of our national security. If you understand, and you appreciate what this country has been from the beginning, that's part of understanding that this country has not always been white, was not always white. English was not the only official language. And then you begin to understand that is an essence of who we are, is this... To use that term strength in diversity. But I just think there's a narrative of fear. It is the zero-sum. You all have heard me talk about this. I'm like, "What if the news media, my colleagues said things like, 'Oh my God, diversity is the coolest thing that can ever happen. It's better than a hot fudge sundae with nuts on it. Diversity is going to be the thing that is going to...Fill in the blank. I'm being facetious here, but I'm just like, if you have a media that is run overwhelmingly by white cis men who present heterosexual of privilege, many from the Ivy League, their mindset is one of, "Oh, my God. This diversity is a problem. It's a problem for us." As opposed to, this is the most... Not just an extraordinary thing. It's been happening in this country since the beginning, and it's actually our greatest strength. What would happen if we were able to reframe that conversation and not lose hope? I know we're getting ready to wrap up. So I want to go around to everybody and just your final thoughts on how we actually remain engaged.
I've shared with many of you that, when I hear people say, "I'm going to give up or there's nothing to be done," and I'm like, "So what are you going to do if you give up? What are you going to do? You're just going to sit with your arms folded forever?" So how do me, myself as a journalist, find the stories to tell? But how are you using this as an opportunity to again, reframe, build solidarity and understand how drastic this is, but also that there's a power that cannot be stopped? Actually, we're going to start with with you Rabbi, then we'll go to Kent, then we'll go to Linda, then we'll go to Rachel, and john powell will take us out.
Rabbi Jonah Dov Pesner:
Thank you Maria so much. Particularly because as a cis gendered white guy, I really appreciate the way that you lifted up the fear that I see in some of my white family. I may be experienced because I'm a rabbi, and I inherit a 5,000 year old both spiritual tradition, but also a tradition of oppression where Jews were other. I have the experience to both live in the world of the power and privilege of a white man and the experience of the violent antisemitism of my ancestors. So I think the most important thing that I want to leave people with... Amen to everything that has been said. But the most important thing for all of us is to really step up at this moment in solidarity, to be in deep relationship, to understand that the abundance of diversity makes us all more full and thrive.We often say the goal is not to survive. The goal is to thrive. I experience my liberation as a human and my fullness in the fullness of the beauty of this screen as I look into the faces of the SCoRE members, the people from diverse backgrounds who have come to love, my fullness, my full humanity, my experience of holiness of the holy one comes through being in relationship with all of you. I want to invite other white people of privilege to take a breath and lean into the opportunity here, to be part of the actualization of the world as it could be. A world of an abundance and access and opportunity and thriving for all of us because we'll all be better as a result.
Maria Hinojosa:
Heck yes. All right, Kent.Kent Wong:
One of the privileges of being with all of you as part of our Solidarity Council on Racial Equity is that we are trying to envision a better future, a better life for all of us within our society and for generations to come. I want to go back to this whole theme that this is an opportunity that the majority on the US Supreme Court do not represent our interests. When they get all expense paid vacations by billionaires and think that that's completely acceptable and everybody should have that opportunity. It is a reflection of just deeply entrenched, out of touch with reality that the majority on the US Supreme Court. But that's true for most of the US Supreme Courts throughout history. So let's not have any illusions that this is somehow a sacred institution. This institution has promoted slavery and the oppression of women, of people of color, of LGBT, of people throughout our history.So this is an organizing opportunity. When I connect with my students at UCLA and students across the country, there is tremendous energy. There is a tremendous collective understanding that we need to take our future in our own hands, that no one is going to address the climate crisis if we don't. No one is going to address creating a multiracial democracy that works for everyone and not just for the wealthy elite that are being protected and defended by the majority on the US Supreme Court. We need to envision a society that serves all of us. So I have tremendous hope for the future, especially when I connect with my students and with young people across the country.
Maria Hinojosa:
My dear sister, Linda.Linda Sarsour:
I'll just say for anyone who's in the moment of thinking, I want to give up, I just want you to think about someone before you, one of your ancestors that did not give up, which is why you are here today. Every time I get to this place, I say somebody sacrificed for me to be here, and it is my responsibility to sacrifice for others. And just to put in perspective that we have to organize now without believing that change is coming tomorrow. I always remember that there are a lot of things that we benefit from today that the people who fought for us to benefit from did not benefit themselves. That they were working with the satisfaction, knowing that another generation after them was going to benefit. So I work from that premise knowing that I may not benefit from the foods of my labor, and that's okay with me. But I know some little Muslim, two generations from now, three generations, 10 generations after me will benefit from something that I did.That really gives me satisfaction. I tell people all the time that organizing, while people see us outside, we hustle, we do all of this and people see us run. But we actually are people with patience because we understand that what we're fighting for is not something that's going to come tomorrow, next week, next month, next year. But again, as our indigenous family has taught us, we got to work for seven generations to come. We have to have some long-term vision that may not in fact include us personally, but it may include people down the line that we love, like our great-great-grandchildren. I want people to stay positive. I always tell people though, that organizers are the most hopeful people because if I didn't believe in the potential of this nation to be the greatest nation on earth, I would just stay home.
I would find some other things to do with my life, but I actually believe in the potential of this country. I believe that one day this country will truly be the greatest nation on earth. I promise you, it is going to be because of all the work that we do. So for all the young people out there, just be your whole unapologetic self because when you are your whole unapologetic self, that gives permission for another young person to be their whole unapologetic self. So I know some good's going to come, and I just want to be a part of it.
Maria Hinojosa:
There's my favorite Mexican saying, it's "No hay mal del cual el bien no pueda venir." There is no bad from which good cannot come. So this is hellish, but we can't say... There will be something. We don't know what, but there will be something. I am counting on young people, of course. Rachel and then john.Rachel Godsil:
I'm so incredibly moved by all the words of everyone who's proceeded me, and just the hope, Linda, that you described, and the importance of patience is so incredibly moving. Of course, I know you also hold the urgency of every moment, of every... Specifically, young person or child's life. I guess in my last few words, I would love to say to any of us who hold power, and as a professor, as a white female professor, I know I hold power, for any of us who hold power over anyone's life in any context, for us to do everything we possibly can to treasure each particular young person in front of us as that whole complex human they are. And to make sure they don't have to navigate the challenges of stereotyping that so many have.And that we do everything we can within our sphere of power to make a difference right after you watch this or tomorrow or the next day or every day while the structural work and while the political work that Lin and others have described so powerfully happens. Because it's both the long-term, the vision and the patience, and the fact that every minute matters, particularly for young people. So just so blessed to be part of this conversation with all of you.
Maria Hinojosa:
I love that every minute matters for young people. In my class inevitably, at some point, often I'll just take a moment to praise my students and just be like, "You all are extraordinary. You're incredible. Can you see it?" And you know what? Most of them, all of them don't hear that from their professors. I'm like, "Y'all are incredible. Believe it. All right, john Powell, take us out.john powell:
Again. I want to thank the panelists, just really beautiful and lovely and encourage more of this. And many of you know, I'm encouraging conversations with Linda and Rabbi Jonah to show how solidarity can work across some of these hard divides. There's a study out showing that white boys are not doing well in K12. Part of the response to that study has been the system is failing white boys. I think that's true. But when Black boys don't do well, the response is not the system is failing Black boys. The response is, Black boys are not up to snuff. They're not good enough. When we see these durable, persistent inequalities in groups, do we blame the group, which is what the court is doing? Or do we blame the system? We have to look at these structures and as Rachel said, what stereotypes, what assumptions are we making?I make the assumption that all groups can thrive if we invest in them, if we look at the system and make it work. There's a saying, I think it was Toni Morrison who said, "Our skills and talents, our gifts from God, what we do with those skills and talents is our gift back to God." We all have an obligation to give back. We all have an obligation to give back. One small tweak, I think young people are incredibly important, but so are older people. I've lost many friends lately and the preciousness of time that we use it. Our friend, Manuel Pastor, who's part of the SCoRE, he says that, "The environmental community says we have 10 to 15 years. Yes, seven generations matter, but if we don't do stuff in the next 5, 10, 15 years, we won't get to that seven generation."
So I think there is a real urgency. I also want to just call out a shout to Kellogg for supporting this effort. A real shout out to all of you. Remember that this is for everybody and the earth itself, it's not for just the Black community, just the Muslim community, just the Jewish community, just the white community for all of us. All of us deserve dignity and belong. And that's what we're fighting for. That's what solidarity is about.
Maria Hinojosa:
Spoken as the true leader of the Othering and Belonging Institute, a member of the Solidarity Council on Racial Equity as our Rachel, Kent, Linda Reverend Pesner. And I'm Maria Hinojosa, and this has been an important conversation. And we're going to keep it going. Just don't lose hope. Don't lose hope. No pierdas la esperanza. My favorite saying is no te vayas, which means don't go anywhere. I mean that in a kind of philosophical way. No te vayas. Don't go anywhere. Thank you for everything. Thank you for watching. Ciao.
